16 Nov 2016: Interview

Are Trees Sentient Beings?
Certainly, Says German Forester

In his bestselling book, The Hidden Life of Trees, Peter Wohlleben argues that to save the world’s forests we must first recognize that trees are “wonderful beings” with innate adaptability, intelligence, and the capacity to communicate with — and heal — other trees.

by richard schiffman

As a student in forestry school, Peter Wohlleben was trained to look at trees exclusively as an economic commodity. But after joining a German forestry agency and managing a community forest, he soon became disillusioned with practices like clear-cutting, chemical use, and mechanical harvesting that put short-term profits before sustainability.

Wohlleben was eventually hired by the local mayor to look after the same forest in an eco-friendly way. Today, he manages the forest without using

Peter Wohlleben
insecticides or heavy machinery, and the trees are harvested by hand and hauled out by horses. He also has started a “living gravestone” project in which townspeople pay the equivalent of the commercial value of an ancient tree to have their ashes interred at its base. The woodland has gone from a money-losing operation to a profitable one.

In an interview with Yale Environment 360, Wohlleben, author of The Hidden Life of Trees, discusses how trees are sophisticated organisms that live in families, support their sick neighbors, and have the capacity to make decisions and fight off predators. He has been criticized for anthropomorphizing trees, but Wohlleben, 52, maintains that to succeed in preserving our forests in a rapidly warming world, we must start to look at trees in an entirely different light.

Yale Environment 360: You write in your book: “When I began my life as a forester, I knew as much about the hidden life of trees as a butcher knows about animals.”

Peter Wohlleben: Forestry students are taught how to harvest wood, what machines to use, how to sharpen the blade of a chainsaw, how to sell the timber, what price to expect — that’s about it. As a young forester I was told to make clear-cuts, to use insecticides, and so on. I thought— “Wait, I am someone who wants to protect nature, and here I am being asked to destroy it!”

I visited some other districts that were operating in an eco-friendly way, and I thought, that’s the way woods should be managed. But the problem is I was still thinking of trees as a commodity, as something to sell, not as living beings. I had to learn from the people of the community where my forest is located how to take a closer look at trees, to see them as unique individuals. I also started reading the latest scientific research that began to present me with a new picture of trees as highly sensitive and social beings.

e360: Social beings?

Wohlleben: We all learn in school that evolution advances by pitting each individual against every other in the struggle for survival. As a forester, I learned that trees are competitors that struggle against each other for light, for space. But we are now learning that individuals of a species are actually working together, they are cooperating with one another.

e360: How exactly do trees cooperate with one another?

Wohlleben: One thing is that mother trees suckle their children, they feed the young tree just enough sugars produced by its own photosynthesis to keep it from dying. Trees in a forest of the same species are connected by the roots, which grow together like a network. Their root tips have highly sensitive brain-like structures that can distinguish whether the root that it encounters in the soil is its own root, the root of another species, or the roots of its own species. If it encounters its own kind, I don’t know if scientists yet know how this happens, but we have measured with radioactive-marked sugar molecules that there is a flow from healthy trees to sick trees so that they will have an equal measure of food and energy available.

e360: How do the healthy trees that feed their sick companions benefit?
Parts of the forest that grew naturally were 3 degrees C cooler than those managed by humans."

Wohlleben: If sick trees die, they fall, which open gaps in the canopy. The climate becomes hotter and drier and the environment becomes worse for the trees that remain. In the forest I manage, students from Aachen University did a study that shows that the parts of the forest that grew naturally were 3 degrees C cooler than those that are managed and disturbed by humans.

The world is trying to limit warming from climate change to 2 degrees, but undisturbed forests can do even better than that. Forests create their own microclimate. When we thin forests, the temperature rises, the humidity goes down, evaporation increases, and all the trees begin to suffer. So trees have a stake in supporting one another to keep all members of the community healthy.

e360: You tell one amazing story in the book about trees keeping neighboring stumps alive.

Wohlleben: This one beech tree was cut four to 500 years ago by a charcoal maker, but the stump is still alive — we found green chlorophyll under the thick bark. The tree has no leaves to create sugars, so the only explanation is that it has been supported by neighboring trees for more than four centuries. I made this discovery myself, and later learned that other foresters have observed this happening as well.

e360: Are there other ways that trees help each other?

Wohlleben: We know that trees also exchange information. When one tree is attacked by insects, we can measure electrical signals that pass through the bark and into the roots and from there into fungi networks in the soil that alert nearby trees of the danger. The trees pay for this service by supplying the fungi with sugars from their photosynthesis. And the fungi in turn protect their host trees from attacks by other dangerous species of fungi and contamination by heavy metals.

Trees also send chemical signals through the air when they are attacked by insects. Nearby trees receive these messages and have time to prepare their defenses. Scientists like Suzanne Simard [who teaches forestry at the University of British Columbia in Vancouver] have labeled this amazing web of communication the Wood Wide Web.

e360: You have also written that trees remember their experiences?

Wohlleben: We had a heavy drought here. In subsequent years, the trees that had suffered through the drought consumed less water in the spring so that they had more available for the summer months. Trees make decisions. They can decide things. We can also say that a tree can learn, and it can remember a drought its whole life and act on that memory by being more cautious of its water usage.

e360: You’ve said that there are "friendships" between trees. What is the evidence for that?

Plants process information just as animals do, but for the most part they do this much more slowly."
Wohlleben: In about one in 50 cases, we see these special friendships between trees. Trees distinguish between one individual and another. They do not treat all other trees the same. Just today, I saw two old beeches standing next to each other. Each one was growing its branches turned away from the other rather than toward each other, as is more usually the case. In this way and others, tree friends take care of each other. This kind of partnership is well known to foresters. They know that if you see such a couple, they are really like a human couple; you have to chop down both if you chop one down, because the other will die anyway.

e360: You speak about trees as if they had personalities.

Wohlleben: Trees have just as much character as humans do. They also exercise independent judgments, which can differ. If trees lose their leaves too early, they many not produce enough food for a long winter. If they keep them on too long, they may get caught in an early snowstorm and the weight of the snow can break their branches. Some trees of the same species and age living right next to each other shed their leaves weeks before their neighbors. I’m not sure why some choose to do this earlier and others later, but it shows that there really are differences of character that we can’t easily account for.

e360: You have been criticized for attributing emotions to trees. Scientists usually avoid such language.

Wohlleben: We humans are emotional animals. We feel things, we don’t just know the world intellectually. So I use words of emotion to connect with people’s experience. Science often takes these words out, but then you have a language people can’t relate to, that they can’t understand. That’s one reason most scientific research has so little impact on people. If you only write technically about “biochemical processes,” people would quickly get bored and stop reading. We have been viewing nature like a machine. That is a pity because trees are badly misunderstood.

e360: How so?

Wohlleben: We just see them as oxygen producers, as timber producers, as creators of shade. I always ask people, “Who would think of, say, elephants in such terms?” We don’t look at elephants just as commodities or as mechanical and insentient objects. We recognize them as marvelous beings. On the other hand, nobody thinks about the inner life of trees, the feelings of these wonderful living beings.

e360: Plants are not generally thought to possess consciousness.

Wohlleben: We have this essentially arbitrary caste system for living beings. We say plants are the lowest caste, the pariahs because they don’t have brains, they don’t move, they don’t have big brown eyes. Flies and insects have eyes, so they are a bit higher, but not so high as monkeys and apes and so on. I want to remove trees from this caste system. This hierarchical ranking of living beings is totally unscientific. Plants process information just as animals do, but for the most part they do this much more slowly. Is life in the slow lane worth less than life on the fast track?

Perhaps we create these artificial barriers between humans and animals, between animals and plants, so that we can use them indiscriminately and without care, without considering the suffering that we are subjecting them to.

e360: How would understanding trees better change the way we manage forests?
Faster growth makes trees less healthy and more susceptible to illnesses."

Wohlleben: Humans are weakening ecosystems by indiscriminately cutting timber. We destroy tree social structures, we destroy their ability to react to climate change. We end up with individuals that are in a bad shape and susceptible to bark beetles, which can only infest trees that are already sick. A tree that is healthy can get rid of them. So the beetle is winning because we have degraded ecosystems to the point where they are unable to respond effectively to threats.

Here in Germany, we have planted spruces to replace the beech trees. It is now too dry and warm for spruce, so those forests are failing in large parts of our country. It’s because we have planted the wrong species for the climate. We need to let nature heal itself and come back to balance with broadleaf species that are natural to our region, like oaks and beeches, which will help to cool the forests down and can survive climate change without too much harm.

e360: Do we need to manage forests at all?

Wohlleben: We are told that forests and woodlands need management, but it is just plantations that need management because they are unstable systems that can be destroyed by storms, by insects, by fire. It’s like a farm with hundreds of acres of corn. It is highly likely that insects or fungi will kill these plants because there is just one species. It’s the same thing with monoculture tree plantations. Natural systems, with a variety of species, are much more resilient.

e360: Managed forests and planted forests tend to space trees farther apart to encourage growth and prevent competition between the trees. Is this a good idea?

Wohlleben: Well, that is one mistake introduced by foresters. While it is true that trees may grow faster when we remove their comrades, because more sunlight means more photosynthesis, they actually grow too quickly for their own good. Trees should grow very slowly in the first 200 years, which we can call their youth. If they grow too fast in the beginning, they will waste all their energy in the rapid growth and will be out of breath, exhausted, and die early. It is similar to industrial meat production where a pig, for example, is fed too much so that it grows prematurely and in five or six months it can be sold and slaughtered. But the animals are unhealthy.

People on their home plots make the same mistake: They cut down some trees to encourage the growth of others. That would be like a family where they shoot the parents to give the kids more space. You slaughter their mother and the young trees will grow very fast, but they will be unhealthy and have short lives.

e360: Trees are growing faster now because of more CO2 in the air. Is that a good thing?

Wohlleben: Not at all. In Germany now, for example, trees are growing 30 percent faster than decades ago. But as I’ve said, faster growth makes trees less healthy and more susceptible to illnesses. The wood is also of lower quality, so the price we get for it is going down. The cells of these fast growing trees actually become bigger and more susceptible to fungi. A little wound can open them to rot, which kills them.

e360: Can foresters help protect forests from climate change and other environmental threats? I understand that in your forest, you still do things the old fashioned way.

Wohlleben: That’s right, we use horse-drawn carts to remove the wood. In between the trees, we don’t use any heavy machinery, which compresses the soil up to two meters deep and


The Moth Snowstorm: Finding
True Value in Nature’s Riches

Moth snowstorm Michael McCarthy
Journalist Michael McCarthy has chronicled the loss of wildlife in his native Britain and globally. In an interview with Yale Environment 360, he talks about why he believes a new defense of the natural world is needed – one based on the joy and spiritual connection it provides for humans.
pushes the air out and makes it less able to soak up the water in winter that the trees need to use for growth in the spring.

e360: So the low-tech methods are actually more cost effective?

Wohlleben: Yes, they are working well all over the world — in the Amazon, even in the U.S, some forest owners are working with these methods. We recommend growing only tree species that are natural to the area. I also advise not to make any clear cuts, don’t kill the mother trees that are protecting their children, leave the families intact. Don’t use heavy machinery and cut out pesticides and other toxic chemicals that kill off beneficial insects and microorganisms in the soil. These are the keys to maintaining a successful and long-lived forest.

POSTED ON 16 Nov 2016 IN Biodiversity Business & Innovation Climate Energy Forests Science & Technology Sustainability Europe North America 


Wohlleben has inspired me to change the ways we
"manage" our urban forest. Less pruning, more
shade, cooler ground temperature. In my library"
The Hidden Life of Trees" is shelved next to Rachel
Posted by Ted Whatley on 17 Nov 2016

Wohlleben says, "the trees are harvested by hand and hauled out by horses".

Well, that method will make forestry in much of the world uneconomic- just a fact.

Joe Zorzin
"a forester for 43 years in Massachusetts"
Posted by Joseph Zorzin on 17 Nov 2016

How refreshing! This is how we "manage" our forests.
You can feel the moisture, like a rainforest with its
canopy. The light doesn't get through to dry it up. It's
nice to hear we don't have to cut. We have 160 acres
of forest, pond and meadow in Canada. It's a humid
area anyway, but you can feel the real difference the
trees make. I've been following the science of trees
and communication and fungi on the forest floor. I
enjoyed this article and will looks for the book! Thank
Posted by Diane Ferguson on 17 Nov 2016

Hi Joe, Just for your information-- Wohlebben told me
in the interview that since changing to low-tech
methods like hand sawing and hauling by horse the
forestry operation has become profitable for the first
Posted by Richard Schiffman on 18 Nov 2016

Thank you for this wonderful interview, Wohlleben is inspiring and creative just when we need such insights.
What he says is meaningful and will lead to a better way for us to live on the earth. I have a sense that it doesn't matter whether he is wrong or right by scientific criteria. What matters is whether it works - and if it works then he is right. If it doesn't work at least no harm is done, while our current natural resource management systems are destroying the earth.
Posted by Rosalie on 18 Nov 2016

So if you do want to harvest trees... which ones can you harvest?
He said don't kill the mother trees. Don't kill the children. Don't harvest the ancient trees that harbor all the knowledge and experience. That leaves zero trees to harvest. He gives us all the "don't"s but zero "do"s.
Posted by Rachel Guderjahn on 18 Nov 2016

This is the world I would like to have lived in and the world I would like to be able to hope my grandchildren could be enjoying in the coming decades. The only thing I would add is that I would favour a woodland burial ground (full body burial in degradable shroud). I would far sooner nourish a tree than become a small CO2 addition to the climate change catastrophe.
Posted by John F. Dunbar on 19 Nov 2016

Just got the book from the botanic garden library
and have since bought two (via Amazon) as gifts.
I'm only on page 25, but I went to a forest preserve
today and saw trees in a different light. I'm meeting
them on/in their terrain! This is a wonderful book
about something you see each day, something we
take for granted.
Posted by Janet in Chicago on 19 Nov 2016

I sincerely believe in this thought. Born and brought
up in India, where nature worship is part of daily life
of Hindus,I believe in this concept and treat trees
and plants as those living beings who can
understand our sentiments and emotions.
I am doing a PHD on the topic Forest conservation
and management regime and more than the legal
auspect this other side attracts me more.
Posted by Ritu Dhingra on 20 Nov 2016

to Richard Schiffman, if logging with horses and hand cutting was more profitable, you can be assured that this is how all logging would be done everywhere- it may work in some parts of the world if labor is cheap and logging machines not available and the value of the wood is high- otherwise, no way- I could elaborate, but this wouldn't be the place
Posted by on 25 Nov 2016

Good to read about this book and the forest
management it reflects. Thinking that a wild resource
can be 'harvested' is merely a short-term,
commercial view. A sustainable forest can yield useful
timber for centuries a clear cut only works once.
I also believe that individual variation among trees
dropping leaves, for example, is a population solution
to the uncertainties of weather and climate, an
intelligent survival strategy.
Good for Herrn Wohlleben , good for trees! I like 'em
Posted by John Griffiths on 02 Dec 2016

What an eye-opener. How really low the human being has treated the forest.
Posted by John-Albert Eadie on 03 Dec 2016

Here's a really extraordinary experience I had with LSD and trees, last summer:

I was sitting in a park, a couple of trees at a distance of about 20 meters. I was sitting on the ground, in some sort of meditative state of mind, the effect of the substance gently winding down, just staring at the grass, not focusing on anything. Suddenly, I don't understand what I'm seeing, because I'm seeing reddish/brownish lines going diagonally over the ground/green of the grass, as if someone had given me sunglasses with these "lines" on the glasses. So I start focusing and I realize that those lines lead to the trunk of one of the trees (they are perfectly aligned with the trunk, where the visible part of the trunk "touches" the ground). And something in my mind just calmly says "yeah of course, just need to put yourself at the same frequency as the tree" (whatever that was supposed to mean...). These lines had variable thicknesses and 3-dimensional shading as well, just like roots, and they did not move at all. They were there, completely stable. Then I saw one root first leading down (as roots normally do), but then leading up to the ground again and at that spot, the ground was brownish. It did not strike me at all. And a couple of hours after that experience, I told myself "the brown spot was probably just dried grass". A couple of days later, I wanted to find out, so I went to that park again, went to the tree and my doubts completely vanished - a couple of (obviously brown) roots really lead up to the ground and were visible on the ground, at that brown spot to which the root in the ground lead up to. What do I make of all this? Apparently, LSD can put your brain in a different working mode (there are studies showing this mode in fMRI images) which can show us more of our real potential. In this case, a special kind of "link" to these trees seemes to have happened. By the way, it has been shown (again with fMRI images) that "Mediums" obtain their special ("psychic") capabilities by putting their brain in a "special mode", as well. So I wouldn't exclude at all the idea that there are parallels. If we manage to put our brain in a different working state (be that using meditation or a substance like LSD), we may discover other aspects of "reality".
Posted by John Kemp on 31 Dec 2016

Back in the late 1980s at the start of a spiritual journey I am still on, the land next to my office building was sold and the new owners had the trees cut down. I could feel the pain of the trees and I sent them love and they calmed down. The next day a person came and was shredding the trees before they even had a chance to release their life force energy. The pain I felt from the trees was overwhelming and the love I sent to them did not calm them down. Also during this time I was working with a man and he was asked to cut down a large tree. As we approached the tree we hit a strong energy block indicating no way you will cut me down. We did not take the job. Wanted to share the experience.
Posted by Elizabeth McCabe on 04 Jan 2017

For everything there is a reason and a time for every purpose under heaven.
Posted by Lillyputtz on 07 Jan 2017

These are really terribly soft-ball questions that fail
to address the lack of rigor to these fantastic
claims. All the evidence is equally consistent with
plants being selfish thieves as they are noble
benefactors. In the face of competing claims for
which the evidence does not discriminate - science
prefers the simpler explanation. This work fails the
basic test of parsimony in the face of
underdetermination of theory by data. Real science
requires much more sleeve-rolling and clever
experimental approaches. And it also favors
couched speculation. It's hallmarks are curiosity
tempered by the knowledge gained from other
fields (evolutionary biologists and philosophers of
science are cringing if they bother to read this
Posted by Norris Muth on 13 Jan 2017


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Richard Schiffman is a New York-based environmental journalist, poet, and author of two biographies. His work has appeared in the The Guardian, The Washington Post, The Christian Science Monitor, and on National Public Radio, among other outlets.



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